Guest Post: Cosmetic sell by dates and other nonsense.

Today's post comes from the lovely Modesty Brown, I adore her blog, and she deserves to be so much better known, so please, go show her some love!

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‘We wouldn’t hesitate to chuck out mouldy or bacteria-ridden food – and the same standards should apply to lotions we put on our skin.’

A few months ago I came across this article in the Mail Online. I have come across recommendations for discarding cosmetics before, but this particular article for some reason really got on my nerves. I suspect it was the spectacularly short shelf-lives prescribed for many of the products mentioned. As well as the rather alarmist slant (what was I expecting, it is the Daily Mail).

This is probably a good point to explain that I am actually a science nerd, specifically a skin microbiologist. I know quite a lot about the bacteria that live on your face (and have had a reasonable amount of experience with pharmaceutical companies). So, naturally I wanted to know if these recommendations were based on sound research or just a load of old flannel!

The bacteria living on your skin are there all the time, they don’t cause infection on your skin ordinarily so I don’t entirely understand the implication that bacteria will ‘breed’ in your make up and cause horrible infections like Impetigo. Unless of course you have been sharing your make up with someone that has open blisters? No, I thought not. Also, I’m not convinced that powdered make up like blusher and eyeshadows would make particularly good growth environments for bacteria.

With items such as mascara or lipgloss I agree there are good reasons to be cautious. Both mascara and lipgloss provide a good growth environment, it is moist, dark and pushing the wand/applicator back in drives air in to the tube.  Though having said all that make up does contain preservatives to prevent growth. With my background I was rather intrigued about what research had been done to investigate microbial contamination of make up. I also wondered if there was anything out there to explain the time frames for expiry.

Interestingly, I managed to find some research into contamination of mascara. In the study women were given a mascara to use daily for 3 months. Two different brands were tested, Avon and Maybelline. At the end of the study the mascara wands were tested for microbial contamination. Although their conclusions were that mascara should be discarded after 3 months, I wouldn’t necessarily agree with this based on their results.

 
Growth was discovered in 12% of the mascara’s but the numbers of bacteria were very small. I won’t bore you with exact figures but from personal experience I can assure you the level of contamination was very low. Also, of the bacteria they isolated, none of the species would cause an eye infection unless there was a scratch on the eye. They managed to grow bacteria from the unused control tubes as well, so some of the bacteria were already in the mascara tubes. Which suggests that contamination occurred during manufacture. Although the research made for interesting reading, for me, it wasn’t a terribly convincing argument that mascara is easily contaminated or poses a serious health risk. I was however horrified by this particular gem from the paper ‘Some will add water, and even saliva, to make their makeup last longer’. Who on Earth spits in their mascara to make it last longer?

I failed to find any research testing other kinds of make up for bacterial contamination. I found lots of articles stating eyeshadows, lipsticks etc., can become contaminated but no research or statistics to back it up. This leads me to think that these sorts of tests are being done by the cosmetics companies and I know they are rarely able (or willing) to share their results! I know that it is also the companies that set their own Period After Opening (PAO) dates, so of course the cynic in me thinks that the dates might well be a bit of a marketing ploy.

Now, I’m not going to advocate you ignore all the guidelines but I would like to suggest that you follow your own instincts before throwing away the contents of your make up bag! As long as you are not sharing your make up, keep your brushes clean and store your cosmetics in a cool, dry place, you can keep it safely for much longer than the expiry guides suggest. My other key advice is to trust your nose! If a product changes texture or starts to smell, bin it. Don’t ask me to describe the smell folks, just believe me when I say you’ll know!

Guest Post: Lippman Nail Swatches.

Today's guest blogger is Sara from Daily Polish, she's an ultra-fun person - someone I really enjoy chatting with on Twitter, but I'll let her do the main introductions herself ...

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hellooooooooooo people of get lippie land! i'm sara, i run a blog called Daily Polish and madame louise was kind enough to allow me to guest post. so in theory i wanted to do something cool and different...be all guest post-y and not regular...but really? i know a lot about a lot...but mostly about random, nonsensical stuff (like - did you know if you put a banana by unripe fruit it will ripen the fruit faster because banana's release ripening enzymes? didja? didja! huh!?) and lots of stuff about shoes (that are way too expensive for my currently unemployed information professional lifestyle and that i cannot even wear as i am headed towards restorative ankle surgery...but i keep buying).

i love makeup and skincare...and i have my favourites...well, makeup i sort of have favourites. i don't really try lots of products so my 'favourites' are just the ones i use and don't make my eyes fall out of my head as a reaction (it could happen!). skincare has been a big trial and error process and i am quite happy with my current regimen (except for the massive spot on my chin that refuses to come to a head and just sits there in all its evil spot glory) BUT at the same time...my real niche is nail polish.

i fell into nail polish by accident, it was a remedy to cure a nail biting habit i developed in my early twenties and it sort of stuck around. i decided to create a nail polish blog that updates every single day during a long stretch of unemployment while i was waiting for my next visa to be issued by the UK Home Office. now that i'm unemployed again (go London job market!) it's again become a great way to pass the time. i puzzled quite a bit over what to post. i wanted to make it different from my usual posts and show off multiple nail polishes instead of just one.......but it isn't often i buy a complete collection of nail polish. so i was undecided between just showing some random ones or finding a cohesive theme amongst my hundreds of bottles. so in the end i decided to showcase one of my favourite brands, deborah lippmann (or lippmann collection depending on how old your bottles are) and her reds. she does reds like nobody else, so many variations and they're all fantastic. i went on a red binge in january and picked up about a dozen polishes from her and a whole bunch of reds. i haven't even tried most of them myself so i decided to use this opportunity to rectify that issue!

to me...there are two nail polish cardinal sins. visible nail line and vamp polishes that just look black. visible nail line is as bad as wear black knickers with white trousers. don't do it! i feel like my life is one quest to eliminate visible nail line...it just bothers me to no end. in this lippmann polish, 'holiday' you have a beautiful red jelly with red and silver glitter mixed throughout. to me it is the grown up version of china glaze's 'ruby pumps'. more refined and elegant. i find ruby pumps to be the unkempt sister to lippmann's holiday. despite how much i love this polish and how great i think it is to jazz up a simple outfit...i HATE that i can still see my visible nail line underneath. it might not be noticeable to anyone else...but i know it's there and it makes me into a crazy person (well...more of a crazy person). one of the secret tricks around a visible nail line is to wear a flesh toned colour underneath. it's completely wonderful and true. i did not do it for this swatch but i would if i were to wear it out and about!!



i'm doing my best to showcase not only different shades of red but different finishes, want to cover as much of the red and nail polish spectrum as possible! a moment of silence is required. i just finished applying this AMAZING lippmann polish for the first time EVER. i went to the kitchen to take photographs (that is where the light is best in my flat), i tripped and dropped my polish. i've NEVER broken a bottle...until now. i broke my beloved lippmann polish (not two minutes after i was just thinking to myself how amazingly beautiful it was, and how it was going to become a true staple in my red collection). DAMMIT. i'm really, really upset. my nail polish are like my children. all 600 something of them are my CHILDREN. ugh. this is devastating. i couldn't drop a $2 polish, i had to drop the one that costs $16 that i'd never worn before. anyway, it's called 'my old flame' and it's a GORGEOUS true deep red...just a gorgeous dark red that is not maroon, not burgundy...just a dark red. it would be a perfect cocktail outfit accompaniment. it's so beautiful. i have to repurchase it now after seeing how stunning it is! it's a creme, applies very smooth and very opaque. no visible nail line here...and no vamp. it doesn't look anything beyond the beautiful red it is.





fever is an orange based red with a very subtle gold shimmer. i wish i had a super powered camera that i could actually zoom in on my fingers and show you the shimmer. it's there, but you really have to LOOK at your nails to see it. it isn't something you really see in a passing glance. but i kind of enjoy the hidden shimmer, gives it this little oomph, this secret thing that makes it special. even if no one else notices the shimmer...it doesn't detract from the beauty of the polish!!





we've now entered the creme section....3 cremes in a row, starting with 'it's raining men'. it's raining men is the newest of all the ones i'm showing, it was released last year with a gorgeous bright purple, this duo was all about retro throwbacks. bright colours from the 50s and 60s, poodle skirts and tie dye. super fun and energetic...a bit more playful than the sultry reds i'll show in a bit! to me...it's an in your face kind of red but in the nicest way possible. you can't ignore this colour, it's just...bam! i do sometimes feel silly for owning SO many shades of red...but they're all so different and feel so different on the nail...and really sort of change your mood and outfit tone depending on the hue!



moving on! kiss from a rose is touted as a 'sanguine' creme on the lippmann website but i've had my blood drawn before and i don't think it's quite this dark! to me...this colour leans more towards maroon, almost heading into the start of purple/red hues, it isn't just a dark red anymore. i feel like it is still a gorgeous colour and in the red family.



here's a pic to show how kiss from a rose leans pink and lady is a tramp is a true red:



the penultimate colour i'm going to show you (i know, i am about to stop blathering...hooray!) is called 'lady is a tramp'. it definitely is more of a true red, probably the darkest red i own. oops. i lied. lippmann calls THIS one the sanguine red. and i can get on board with that one! it kind of reminds me of the scene in pretty woman where julia roberts is wearing the black lacy cocktail dress. this nail polish would be the perfect accoutrement to that kind of dress. it's grown up and risque and super sexy. i love love love love love it!



and finnnnnnnnnnally (have i bored you to tears yet? i hope not!) we have 'since i fell for you'. which is probably my favourite. well...that's a lie. it's my favourite red shimmer. how about that? it's described as a 'shiraz shimmer' (to get all fancy on you)..and it's a great dark pinkish leaning red with tons of shimmer. it really glows on the nail. i love a good creme polish as much as the next girl but there is something special (to me) about shimmers. they have a secret depth to them, i find it intriguing. just a quick apology on the picture, my polish got a bit nasty. you'd think by now i'd know to put on my spanx first and THEN do a manicure....but no, i always forget and always ding up my nails as i try to pour myself into a slimming thing.





you might rightfully think i'm crazy for buying so many red shades from one brand (especially at $16/polish) but lippmann is a brand that is justifiable. their colours are great, the formula...i've never come across a lippmann that was anything less than perfection. also they're replacing my broken bottle for free! winner! i also feel that to me...red nail polish are like power panties. you put them on and it's this instant burst of extra confidence and sass.

lippmann polishes are big 3 free.

thanks for reading and enduring my crazy!

xo

Sara

Guest Post: Less of your Lip

Today's guest poster, Peter Jones of http://www.spogblot.com, explains why less, is clearly more.

Here are the items on the shelf in my bathroom: toothpaste, antiperspirant, aftershave. There’s also a tube of Hydra Energetic, Anti-Fatigue, Instant Action Eye Care. My wife bought it for me. According to the side of the tube I’m supposed to apply it morning and evening, gently patting it into the “eye area”, and smoothing outwards from the corner of the eye to the temple. I’ve gone through this process only once. I followed the instructions to the letter, then stared into the mirror in anticipation.

Nothing.

It had made no visible difference whatsoever! I wondered briefly whether I’d misunderstood the instructions; whether their definition of “eye area” and mine were the same. And then I put it back on the shelf, and never gave it another thought until today. When it comes to understanding makeup, clearly I’m missing some kind of gene.

My wife loved makeup. That same shelf in the bathroom I now use for my four items was merely an over-flow area for all the jars, cans, bottles and sprays which occupied every available surface. Kate accumulated cosmetics faster than she could possibly use them. Much of it via the internet. Much of it from abroad. She had products that were allegedly infused with gold, and others that purported to have liquid oxygen in them.

When Kate died I wasn’t the only one who suffered a loss. Shares in Boots the Chemist dropped several points. The whole cosmetic industry entered a slump that they’ve wrongly attributed to early signs of the recession. In short, she should be the one writing this blog entry.

But I do remember this: Early on in our marriage Kate hired a Makeup Artist and Image Consultant to help her “discover a new look”. Whilst I tapped away in my office I could hear the exasperated sounds of my wife arguing with the woman who’d agreed to take on a challenge from which there could be no victory. And then it happened:
“Well let’s see what Peter thinks,” said Kate. And moments later she was standing in the door-way to my office, looking a little like the clown doll from the old BBC television test card. “Well?” She asked. I considered my reply carefully. By now the Image Consultant lady was standing behind my wife, desperately hoping that I’d come to her defence. But she was going to be disappointed.
“I’m not sure it’s really you,” I said.
“What don’t you like about it?” demanded Kate.
“It’s just.. it’s not.. I kind of prefer it when you don’t wear makeup it.” It was true.
“And that’s my point,” said Kate turning to the lady behind her, “Because Peter doesn’t even realise that he’s never seen me without makeup!”

At the time I was shocked. I felt foolish, and a little hurt. Like I was somehow one of those husbands who wouldn’t notice if my wife had had her hair done, or shaved it off, or was wearing a bin liner, or was actually there at all. But now I realise that’s not what she meant. Makeup, so it seems, isn’t supposed to be noticed. At least not all the time. Sometimes it’s there just to make sure your loved ones don’t miss the natural features you already have.

Which makes me wonder whether I should have another look at that barely used tube of Hydra Energetic, Anti-Fatigue, Instant Action Eye Care.

 

http://www.spogblot.com

Guest Post: Fyrinnae Pixie Epoxy – Initial Thoughts

Long one of my favourite bloggers, I'm delighted to introduce you to Sirvinya from Confessions of a makeup Addict today, take it away, Sirvinya!

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Fyrinnae Pixie Epoxy – Initial Thoughts 
Hi everyone! I must say I’m honoured to be picked for one of Get Lippie’s guest bloggers. While racking my brains for something to share today, I had been messing around with Fyrinnae’s Pixie Epoxy. Since I have been talking about this stuff constantly, I thought I’d give you a little “mini-review” of my initial thoughts on this amazing, wonderful, miracle product.

Available on www.fyrinnae.com for $7.00 (samples are $1.50).

I saw reviews for this stuff everywhere for months before I finally got round to ordering it. I’ve got to admit, I was sceptical. As the make up addict that I am, I have tried a heck of a lot of supposed “wonder” products. I ended up over on the Fyrinnae one day to order some of the new shades and added a sample of Pixie Epoxy to my cart. Then I took it straight back out and added a full size.

This stuff is amazing.

Seriously, it’s completely changed the way I deal with mineral make up. You only have to apply the teeniest possible amount. A dot to my lid will spread to cover my whole lid. Applying too much will give a really patchy, clumpy result so apply half as much as you think. You can always add more. Then wait for it to turn tacky (no more than 15 seconds). I then pat on whichever pigment to get a covering on my lid, then sweep my brush over the top to blend.

I’d say this works better than foiling. You know how I feel about foiling (I love it, in case you haven’t seen my blog).

I’ve done some quick and dirty swatching for you!

Urban Decay Primer Potion – grabs the base colour of the shadow, leaving the sparkles loose. After I took the photo, the sparkles just brushed off my arm.

Pixie Epoxy – grabs everything. The base and sparkles were held fast! Nothing budged when I rubbed the swatch. This swatch gave the truest to pot colour swatch.

Foiling – again, grabs the base colour the best. The sparkles don’t move but are overwhelmed by the deep base colour.

I have been using Pixie Epoxy pretty much every time I apply my eye make up these days. It doesn’t prevent creasing on me, so I apply a very thin layer of a MAC Paint Pot to prevent creasing. The Pixie Epoxy will happily sit on the top without creasing.

Pixie Epoxy is very easy to remove as well. It will actually just come off with water but doesn’t seem to budge at all on my lids, even if my eyes have watered. After I removed the swatches on my arm I was left with a dark patch of base colour from the Primer Potion and Foiled swatch, but nothing at all from the Pixie Epoxy.

The best thing is that it works with pretty much anything with shimmer. However, it doesn’t work so well with mattes. I have been experimenting with some of my sheerer MAC shadows (why are they getting more and more crappy these days?) and Pixie Epoxy does amazing things to those.

If you’ve been considering this I’ve got to say it’s absolutely worth trying! Just grab a sample if you’re not sure, you won’t regret it!

Excuse me, I have to go and cover my arm in Pixie Epoxy and pigments...

Guest Post: So what is all this mineral-makeup stuff anyway?

Please welcome the first of my guest-bloggers, today is the turn of  LiAnn, from Sparklecrack Central and she's writing about one of her main passions, mineral makeup:

While the definition of “mineral makeup” can change depending on who you
ask, generally it’s loose-powder makeup with minimal ingredients – most
specifically, few to no preservatives. There is no government guideline or
definition for what mineral makeup is, just as there is no government
definition for “organic makeup” (at least not in the United States). This
makes buying mineral makeup a bit interesting.

People use mineral makeup for a number of reasons: they want to put as few
chemicals on their skin as possible, they want to avoid certain chemicals
altogether (because of sensitivities or personal lifestyle choices, such
as veganism), they want to support companies that don’t do any animal
testing, they want to support small businesses, they want to buy local,
they prefer the way mineral makeup applies/lasts/feels…and more.

The reasons a person chooses to use mineral makeup impacts their choice of
vendor, either a little (want loose-powder makeup with no preservatives)
to a lot (want or need to buy only vegan products). I do not have chemical
sensitivities, nor am I vegan. Instead, I chose to start using mineral
makeup because I liked the idea that this stuff would never go bad. (I had
a tendency to buy a makeup palette, use it for a week or two, then leave
it in the drawer for a year…or three. Since I usually bought the cheap
palettes, by the time I thought of using the palette again, most of the
pressed-powder items were still somewhat usable, but any semifluid items
like glosses were on the verge of developing language skills.) I continued
using mineral makeup because I liked the wider range of available
eyecolors, the relative ease of blending my own blushes and foundation,
and the lack of a “face-submerged-in-axle-grease” sensation that liquid
foundations always seemed to give me. I started with Bare Escentuals,
arguably the grandmommy of the modern popular mineral makeup revolution;
and quickly branched out to buying on Ebay and trying indie MMU as a way
to avoid the high price of BE’s products. I chose some bad vendors, I
chose some bad products, I found some inexpensive suppliers, I found my
Holy Grail foundation, and I learned a lot. Makeup forums and blogs were a
significant help in finding new vendors to try.

Where you choose to get your mineral makeup will depend on your reasons
for trying it, your own preferences in mineral makeup, your budget, where
you’re located, and possibly your own patience in mixing your own makeup
from pigments, oxides, and base mixes available from wholesalers like TKB
Trading. (I have little patience. I’m more than happy to pay someone else
to find the perfect mix of micas, oxides, and bases.) Whomever you choose
to patronize, you should realize that what works for someone (let’s say
me) might not work for you – even if you have similar skintone,
coloration, and general health issues. Don’t be discouraged if you can’t
find a great foundation right away, and have to try several vendors. When
I started using MMU, BE had 15 different foundation shades. Now they have
25, so it’s easier to find an exact match. (I ended up going with a
different vendor, and am quite happy with my choice. Others very much
prefer Bare Escentuals. It’s all up to the individual.)

Wherever you start off, you’ll need some basics:
Good brushes. There are various brush sets available with starter kits,
travel sets, et cetera et cetera. While much of the makeup world
(including mineral makeup users and artists) raves about the quality of
MAC’s brushes, they are pricey…and they’re not the only high-quality items
available. EcoTools’ sets are good basic MMU brushes, some of Sephora’s
travel sets work quite nicely, and of course there are others. Start with
a set, figure out your preferences for tool usage, brush
firmness/coarseness, et cetera, and build from there.
Brush cleaner. Part of the appeal of MMU is the lack of contaminants –
that includes the bacteria from your own skin. Keeping your brushes and
lids clean helps keep your MMU free from contaminants, extending its
lifespan. Clean your brushes after five uses, or once a month – whichever
comes first. Clean a makeup brush the same way you would clean a paint
brush…just be more delicate.
Cleaning wipes. Loose powder spills, drifts, and wafts all over the place.
You may want to have these on hand for the initial small spills.
Artist’s palette. I use this for foiling or for mixing my powders – to go
just a little further toward keeping my minerals dry and uncontaminated.
This isn’t 100% necessary, but it can keep your MMU lids from getting
gunky while you’re trying to figure out that “foiling” thing (applying
eyecolors wet, for more staying power / more vivid effects.) A $1 three-
or four-well plastic palette from your local craft store will work fine –
no need to go out and spend more than that unless you want something
fancier.

Good reading-comprehension. Some descriptions are a bit more artistic than
useful. I had no idea what “a fondness of purple” was, but familiarity
with the vendors’ product line helped me zero in on the eyeshadow’s color
(a cool berry-wine, as it turns out.) Since shopping with most indie MMU
vendors means shopping exclusively online, you’ll have to learn how to
mentally “color correct” for your monitor.

Also helpful, no matter what makeup you use:
Patience to try multiple products, vendors, and techniques. It’s not as
simple as opening the compact, using the supplied sponge applicator, and
spreading on the foundation. Wet application, dry application, mixing with
a moisturizer, using fixing sprays, “finishing powder sandwiches”,
stippling versus swirling…you may have to play around a bit before you get
the perfect application technique even after you’ve found the perfect
product and shade.
Strength to ask for what you want, and to refuse what you don’t need.
Maybe it’s because women are taught to catch more flies with honey than
with vinegar, but we’re just not very adept at asserting ourselves – even
at the makeup counter. If you go in for a makeover and the sales associate
uses a shade that you don’t like, or glosses over a technique too quickly
for you to catch it all, speak up! This is especially true if you’re just
learning to use mineral makeup.

•If you decide that you like the results, but not the storage/travel
issues of loose-powder mineral makeup, there are tutorials on YouTube that
show you how to press your own eyeshadows, blushes, and foundations. You
can also buy pressing media, pans, and palettes from several sources,
including beauty supply stores.
•While a lot of makeup – and specifically, indie MMU - vendors mark
themselves as “cruelty free”, this doesn’t guarantee that their suppliers
didn’t test the raw materials on animals. While the cosmetics industry has
been working – hard – to come up with testing methods that do not involve
animals, they haven’t yet found 100% reliable methods and procedures that
will spot any harmful effects while the products are still in the lab.
Don’t let the “cruelty free” symbol be your deciding factor to buy from a
company.
•While we’re on the subject of labels, “organic makeup” doesn’t always
mean a whole lot, either. There is no US government certification for
“organic makeup”, so something can quite legally be marketed and labeled
as organic even if it contains preservatives or artificial ingredients.
(“Natural makeup” is also no guarantee of perfection for everybody – many
of Sephora’s “natural” line of products contain a substance which causes
skin reactions in quite a few people. But because this substance is a
fatty acid derived from coconuts and not adulterated with any inorganic
substances, it’s counted a “natural” ingredient.)
•If you buy any semiliquid products (lipsticks, balms, cream shadow
bases) from a mineral makeup vendor, be aware that these products will
have a shorter lifespan than your average drugstore lipstick – generally 6
to 9 months, but a good vendor should have the estimated product lifespan
prominently available (on the website’s product page, on the packaging,
somewhere.)
•While a lot of mineral makeup lines focus on naturalistic colors and a
more neutral palette, there are mineral makeup companies that sell
brighter, bolder, more deeply pigmented eyeshadows. I have purchased from
several of them, and I know that there are others out there.

That’s all for now, otherwise I’m going to get accusations that I’m trying
to take over Louise’s blog in her absence :D If you want to see which
makeup companies I use, pop over to my blog. I’ve got a page where I’ve
actually listed out every single eyecolor I own, grouped by vendor. You
can also check out the blogs and forums I link to, and see what vendors
those folks use.


--
Sparklecrack Central - http://www.sparklecrackcentral.com
Twinkle twinkle little jar, look how many of you there are.

What's happening on Get Lippie this week OR Bye, bye Barry!

This post is coming to you via the magic of scheduled posting, because as anyone who follows me on Twitter should know, I'm in hospital right now having a minor operation.  Nothing too serious, but I'll be out of action for a good few days. Now, as I'm cranky at the best of times, I thought rather than subject my lovely blog readers to a few days of my complaining about being too hot/cold/itchy/tired/grumpy/elderly/hungry/not hungry and the like that I'd enlist some people to take over my blog for a few days.

I put out a call for volunteer bloggers on Twitter recently, and what a response I had! I have some great blog posts coming up for you this week, on the magic of mineral makeup, about some wonderful products you might never of heard of, about the perils of too much makeup, about microbes (seriously), about sunscreens, lipsticks, nail varnish and some other great stuff too.  So Get Lippie will look a bit different for the next week or so, but, I hope you'll all enjoy reading the posts that have been lined up for you, as much as I've enjoyed receiving them.

Finally, to all my guest bloggers, thank you so much for helping me out, none of you had to, and I've been very moved by you all making the effort to make sure I had some articles to cover when I wasn't feeling up to it!  You're amazing.

Urgh!

Sometimes, I can't help gilding the lily:

Had a perfectly good Rococo Utility manicure, and I went and added a layer of Inglot flakies to it, and ended up with this hideous mess. Both gorgeous shades on their own, added together just made me feel all "urgh" about it!

Have you ever made any terrible errors of combination?